Who Or What Is Nemesis ?

[DelBubs]

I can't see how having an anarchistic mindset must necessitate a person being chaotic. Anarchy by definition is considered living outside the dictates of others, but still behaving in a sociably accepted way. The anarchist (by their own definition) we see at G8 meetings are to my mind not anarchists at all, but poor little rich boys and girls trying to piss off mummy and daddy. Anarchist in it's purest form is that which was depicted in V for Vendetta. Controlling your own life, but not to the detriment of others. Off course it would never work, cos by nature man is selfish and self serving, which immediately makes Anarchy, like any other concept, communism, socialism, religious fundementalism, even democracy doomed to failure. Great in theory, but unworkable in practice.

Regarding Nemesis, however, her being an anarchist is somthing that is totaly out of left field. The two earlier Nemesis incarnations have been firstly driven by righteousness, as in Ernest St Ives was an abomination who should not have been. While the second was law abiding to the point of leading Gamma for the gov, without the need for mind controlling technical devices. It will be interesting to see what kind of Anarchist, Nemesis is depicted as, the pure 'V' sort or the selfish type we see at demo's.

Edited for the sake of it :P

[DelBubs]

Double posting cos I can't be doing with all that editing thing.

Speculate away, recieved this a few mins back.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hudnall"
Yes, I called her Jane, as in Jane Doe. I wanted her to be a mystery. But
she was not the original Nemesis. She has the original's costume, though and
has a connection that I might have played with later. But I never got the
chance.

When I asked if she was connected to the original by family he wrote the following

Yeah, she's a family member, revenging the death of her sister or something
like that. I don't remember, it's been awhile since I thought about it

Well, if MML can be an unknown brother, then why couldn't St Ives have had two daughters?

[kozzi24]

I had my own ideas of Nemesis that I'll share. They are mostly invalidated by Scott's direction of the character in v3.
The Byrne Nemesis was gone. The one that appeared as leader of Gamma Flight was a new person who had somehow gained possession of the atom'thick sword. She probably got it from the government she served, whose agents had recovered the weapon.
He demonstrated particular rancor for Heather, and these hard feelings seemed beyond their competeing teams.
I thought the 2nd Nemesis was one of Heather's 6 siblings, one who resented Heather's perceived abandonment. When offered by the government, she bacame Nemesis 2 specifically to be Heather's nemesis.

[Le Messor]

I kinda like the Heather's sister explanation, but it doesn't seem to come from anywhere. Wait, she did revisit the family once, and her parents were mad at her for marrying Mac.
But I don't see that building the kind of resentment that would lead to Nemesisness. Only if she abandoned them at a time of need - which is -exactly- when she returned.

Her sword's been bothering me.
Especially in #5. I hadn't read it last week, so I nearly said that the theory that she could only fly with it couldn't be backed up; now it can.
That said, I'm gonna do something I rarely do, and refer to #31. In it, she gave Puck the sword for a while, while she kept people alive. Instead of losing life or powers, she sustained them in others, while removed from the sword - hardly the actions of somebody who can't sustain even herself without touching it.

Which makes something really stupid. When Byrne drew her, and in no way tied the powers to the sword itself, she chained the thing to her wrist. Now that she seems to depend on it to survive, she holds it loose, so people can just knock it away. That's really, really dumb.

An atoms' width blade.
Two problems with the way it's portrayed; the first is a mistake Byrne made. Most swords have a groove down the middle, a place to let the blood run off.
Nemesis' does, too. Now, they look kinda dumb without them - I've just made such a blade in computer, and it feels like it needs the detail.
However, with a blade that thin, even if it had one, even if it -could-, no way would you be able to see it. It'd be, by definition, lessn' an atom thick.

Second, could the blade really stick out of the rock like that? Wouldn't it slide -all- the way in, then slide down sideways until the handle hit the floor? The only explanation I can think of is that the rock's holding it tight, top and bottom, but I don't buy it, not with that blade.

- Le Messor
"Are we having fun yet?"
- J. Paul Grayson

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

VERY good points. I find myself now wondering the same things... especially about the blade being embedded in the rock. I hadn't thought of that before, but it's a perfectly logical question to ask.

[kozzi24]

I kinda like the Heather's sister explanation, but it doesn't seem to come from anywhere. Wait, she did revisit the family once, and her parents were mad at her for marrying Mac.
But I don't see that building the kind of resentment that would lead to Nemesisness. Only if she abandoned them at a time of need - which is -exactly- when she returned.

Heather's family is defined only as large, I think she was one of seven. I don't remember any of them being named. Heather did state circa #13 that her parents did not approve of the wedding to Mac, so she probably withdrew from her family over that.
To tie the theory into current continuity, assume the Nemesis sister is just a year younger than Heather. One Easter when she was five, Heather had cavities so got a big stuffed bunny for Easter. Nemsis got choclate eggs. The chocolate was gone in a day, but Heather carried around that stuffed bunny for years.

Thus "All the other girls got bunnies"

and the sibling rivaly began. Heather didn't have to be WRONG in leaving; "Nemesister" just needed to PERCEIVE the abandonment. Haven't we all been in this situation with family?

[jay042]

Her sword's been bothering me.
Especially in #5. I hadn't read it last week, so I nearly said that the theory that she could only fly with it couldn't be backed up; now it can.
That said, I'm gonna do something I rarely do, and refer to #31. In it, she gave Puck the sword for a while, while she kept people alive. Instead of losing life or powers, she sustained them in others, while removed from the sword - hardly the actions of somebody who can't sustain even herself without touching it.

I am of the line of thinking that this can't be the original Nemesis, the characters are just too different. Nemesis 1 obviously had a much more mystical nature than her sucessor. Which makes me think she had access to magics that allowed her to maintain the lifeforces of Ernest's victims,

From what Lobell was showing in issue #4 then Nemesis 2 is at least as old as Centenial, if not older. It may be that the sword is what maintains her vitality and grants her the powers she has. Without the sword, she quickly is reduced to the physical limits of a one hundered year old woman. Which might be more psycological than physical, for someone who is obviously very active and dependent on her strength.

An atoms' width blade.
Two problems with the way it's portrayed; the first is a mistake Byrne made. Most swords have a groove down the middle, a place to let the blood run off.
Nemesis' does, too. Now, they look kinda dumb without them - I've just made such a blade in computer, and it feels like it needs the detail.
However, with a blade that thin, even if it had one, even if it -could-, no way would you be able to see it. It'd be, by definition, lessn' an atom thick.

I don't think the whole blade is one atom thick, just the blade edge. All blades are natuarally thicker in the center. The combination of sorcery and science that created the blade maed it out of an magical alloy that maintains an inhumanly keen edge. I think the talk of an atom's width blade is merely hyperbole on Nemesis' part.

Second, could the blade really stick out of the rock like that? Wouldn't it slide -all- the way in, then slide down sideways until the handle hit the floor? The only explanation I can think of is that the rock's holding it tight, top and bottom, but I don't buy it, not with that blade.

If you throw a blade into a wooden block, it will stick in place, it won't chop the wood by itself. Nemesis' blade probably would act the same way in a block of stone. Simply because it would not have enough force behind the blade to do more than drive it'self in.

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

Perhaps not, but if the blade is an atom's-width thick, as she has stated (and Nemesis doesn't seem the type to engage in hyperbole of that nature), the blade would slip between the molecules of the rock until the handle hit something. That's how I gathered it, at least.

[Le Messor]

I thought of the bit about only the edge of the blade being an atom's width thick, but then Byrne described it like this:
"Invisible when scene on edge".
Which tells me that the whole blade (as she openly stated) was that thin, not just part. Either way, if it is invisible on edge, I still don't think you could put a visible groove in it - unless it's a slot right through, which isn't what's drawn and wouldn't make sense.

'Scuse me while I breathe...

- Le Messor
"As a goat herd learns his trade by goat, so a writer learns his trade by wrote."

[JohnnyCanuck]

Is it ever explained? And do we ever see her without her mask?

No she just showed up in a Gamma Flight, no one seemed to care. And no she hasn't been seen fully without her mask.[/quote]


But she will be in the Dave Ross arc. I've seen the pencils. That's all I'm saying.

[bigbloo]

RE: Nemesis' sword

How does she carry it? Does it have a scabbard? I dont have my issues handy so i need to ask.

[Ben]

RE: Nemesis' sword

How does she carry it? Does it have a scabbard? I dont have my issues handy so i need to ask.

Yes she does, but it must be a magical one, that only appears to sheath the sword when she wants it, as it's not in most pannels. However you can she it:

here and here

Ben

[Le Messor]

Byrne's Nemesis didn't have a scabbard - I've always figured that she couldn't design one that'd do the job. I've also always figured that was why she chained the thing to herself.

I copied the atom's width thick thing for my sword design, but mine widens out towards the handle, so it can be put in a scabbard. That, and I'd line the scabbard with material as dense as the blade.

Speaking of density, before anybody asks:
I imagine that the blade has no more metal than an ordinary sword, it's just very, very dense. Which is why it isn't a quantum singularity. It hasn't got that much mass.

- Le Messor
"Astronauts are out to launch."

[Le Messor]

On the 'Is this the real Nemesis, is this just Fantasy?' thread:

(#7 SPOILER ALERT)


So, we've finally seen her face. Nothing like I pictured it.
Part of that is Lobdell playing with our expectations, which I respect.

But, if this -is- the first, he's contradicting Byrne;
When Northstar saw her for the first time, she had ragged, bright red hair (and on AF, only he and his sister have the changing-hair-colour power), and she was described like this: 'And Jean-Paul Beaubier feels the world turn suddenly inside out. For the face beneath the mask is not that of Danielle Belmonde. It is the face of one who carries upon her shoulders the anguish of the world... And the terrible lifeless eyes burn into his very soul."

Somehow I doubt -that's- the teeny bopper we saw in #7.

On another note, if she's 'long-lived but not immortal', why's she look like a fourteen-year-old girl after a hundred years?

- Le Messor
"Atheism is a non-prophet organization. "

[Major Mapleleaf Jr]

Well, Northstar's personal take on Nemesis' face was just that: his personal take. The lifeless eyes, the burden she shoulders, perhaps Clayton simply isn't capable of conveying something so dark in his art. But I don't want to speak for him or anything.

As for being long-lived but not immortal, well, look at the Eternals, or the Asgardians. Many of them are youthful in appearance, but they aren't immortal.