What do you like/dislike about the members of Alpha Flight?

[Tawmis]

Yankee's "Take A Point/Add A Point" thread made me think - it's interesting who we minus points and add points to...

So I thought it'd be kind of fun to list the people from his list - and people can reply to any or all of the character - and write down what they like or dislike or both - about the following characters? I figure there's potential for quite a bit of discussion!

Aurora
Beta Ray Bill
Centennial
Diamond Lil
Earth Mover
Feedback
Flex
Ghost Girl
Goblyn
Groundhog
Guardian (Heather)
Madison Jeffries (AKA Box 2)
Major Mapleleaf
Manbot
Marrina
Michael Pointer
Murmur
Nemesis
Northstar
Pathway
Persuasion
Puck 1s
Puck (Zuzha Yu)
Radius
Roger Bochs (aka Box 1)
Sasquatch
Shaman
Smart Alec
Snowbird
Spider Woman (Julia Carpenter)
St. Elmo
Stitch
Talisman
U.S.Agent
Vindicator (Mac)
Wild Child
Windshear
Yukon Jack

[Tawmis]

Aurora

Aurora, when she first appeared, was this beautiful, flirty woman. So I loved her in her first appearance - and as she was developed (early) in Volume One, I thought the multiple personality disorder was an interesting twist that we've not really seen in main heroes.

Beta Ray Bill

To be fair, Beta Ray Bill I was a huge Beta Ray Bill fan from the pages of THOR. So he was the one thing I really liked about that version of Omega Flight.

Centennial

I wasn't a fan of this character. He reminded me of the "New X-Men" explosion of characters - that were off beat. This old man who is extremely strong, yet has no muscles. Just odd. I liked his personality - just not how he was drawn. Wish if he was a retired hero, he would have looked the part. Still muscular, but maybe not that muscular or something...

Diamond Lil

The original "evil" Omega Flight team had a lot of stand out characters. And Diamond Lil was one, that later on in the series, got some development - and I really liked her character.

Earth Mover

I only read one issue with him (in Wolverine) - and he was another one where he reminded me of the "New X-Men" explosion of students... I get that people have mohawks, and sometimes it works (Storm) and sometimes it doesn't. There was nothing at all that drew me to this character - and I typically favor obscure characters.

Feedback
Ghost Girl
Groundhog
St. Elmo
Stitch

This batch of characters - hold zero memory slots. I have a very general memory of them - of them, only Saint Elmo sticks out because I remember him as a primary character in an Annual or something. But other than that - meh.

Flex

For what he was (being in V2), I thought he was an interesting character. Very "anime" however, to me. Seems like something I would see in an anime cartoon - from his looks to his powers. I know they tried to "allude" he was a genetic son (or genetic genes) from Wolverine - and I am glad (I don't think?) that was ever confirmed. I didn't like him. I didn't hate him. He was just kind of there.

Pathway
Goblyn

For all my complaining about Bill "replacing" Alpha Flight with his team; this was a character creation that I thought was very unique. Every time I think of Pathway/Goblyn - I can't help but think if they were the inspiration for Generation X's "Penance." Because I feel like there's a lot of similarities.

Guardian (Heather)

I liked Heather, as Heather. When she donned on the costume, I feel like we lost the character that was there. (And not just because she killed Snowbird... What? Me? Bitter? No! Heh). Kidding aside - I feel like she was better as a field leader (without the super suit). Strangely, her powers in V2, I thought were better adjustment (and her costume). I understand that, really, with Mac dead, there was little choice - they needed another leader, and I guess throwing Heather into Mac's costume was a quick way to do just that.

Madison Jeffries (AKA Box 2)

I liked Madison in the beginning; however, he was one character, who with development later on, actually annoyed me (especially the triangle between him, Heather and Puck).

Major Mapleleaf

I thought he was a good character. And pretty much a shame, he didn't end up in Mac's costume eventually.

Manbot

I. Hated. This. Character.

Marrina

Loved her. And I thought when she was in Avengers, it was a good thing. However, it would lead to her demise, which was disappointing. But the fact that she was with Sub Mariner, I thought, at the time, was some good recognition.

Michael Pointer

Mixed feelings. I liked his story in that title (forgot what what it was? Marvel Tales or something?)

Murmur

Only person I hated more than her was Manbot.

Nemesis

I liked the original Nemesis that appeared - but bringing her back seemed odd, after her story was resolved. Granted, Deadly Ernest came back - and once killed - it seems like she would have called it quits.

Northstar

Loved Northstar, way back. But - really dug him later - when I was not so niave - and understood - all the hints of his sexual orientation.

Persuasion

Initially didn't care for her - she seemed forced. But I do like the idea of her character, because Purple Man has probably seduced his fair share of women and spawned many children.

Puck

Puck was the heart of the team. Who didn't like Puck?

Puck (Zuzha Yu)

Wish we would have seen more of her. And seen some daughter/father interaction. That's never happened has it?

Radius

He was probably the most defined character in V2, and I actually liked his character, and his tie to Unus the Untouchable.

Roger Bochs (aka Box 1)

I didn't like the character initially - but liked the story build up that led to his "down fall" for lack of a better word.

Sasquatch

Probably one of my favorites of Alpha Flight. Really liked that he was different. He was like Hulk, but not!

Shaman

Probably, aside from Snowbird - or probably tied with her - my favorite character in Alpha Flight. I did, however, dislike when he wore the Talisman and had that B&W suit.

Smart Alec

Wish we could have seen more of him, after he got out of the bag.

Snowbird

Do I really need to say anything here? Other than "Marry me?"

Spider Woman (Julia Carpenter)

I liked her from the days I read her in West Coast Avengers, so it was cool to have a new place to read about her, though they didn't do much with her character.

Talisman

Really liked her character. Thought she got some amazing development. Her personality reminds me of M.

U.S.Agent

Never been a fan, and his Omega Flight stuff did nothing to change my mind.

Vindicator (Mac)

He was the Captain America of the team. It was an odd move to kill him.

Wild Child

Loved Wildchild - and that love for the character grew with his appearance in X-Factor and then in Age of Apocalypse.

Windshear

Can't remember much about him, except he appeared near the end of the series.

Yukon Jack

Probably my favorite (new) character to come out of the volume he was in.

[Bill P]

The original "evil" Omega Flight team had a lot of stand out characters. And Diamond Lil was one, that later on in the series, got some development - and I really liked her character.

I agree. The breast cancer story arc was great.

[Bill P]

I agree. The breast cancer story arc was great.

Cancer part sucks. Story telling was great

[zephyr74]

Aurora - great and original character, but often mishandled.
Beta Ray Bill - I liked him back in the day but not as a member of AF.
Centennial - Eh.
Diamond Lil - so much untapped potential but I read that she was killed off.
Earth Mover - not familiar but sounds lame from what I've read.
Feedback - only a vague memory.
Flex - don't know anything about this character.
Ghost Girl - don't know anything about this character.
Goblyn - truthfully, I only like her as a foil to further develop Laura Dean.
Groundhog - eh.
Guardian (Heather) - BEST Alphan ever.
Madison Jeffries (AKA Box 2) - really liked him.
Major Mapleleaf - character had potential.
Manbot - don't know anything about this character.
Marrina - good character that sadly gets mishandled more often than Aurora.
Michael Pointer - don't know anything about this character.
Murmur - don't know anything about this character.
Nemesis - I only liked the original.
Northstar - like Aurora, a classic.
Pathway - so much untapped potential for development.
Persuasion - always loved this character. Kara was atrociously handled in that last AF series.
Puck 1s - the original, especially as written by Byrne was great.
Puck (Zuzha Yu) - eh.
Radius - don't know anything about this character.
Roger Bochs (aka Box 1) - good character and good story arch.
Sasquatch - classic, even if some artists are clueless in rendering his physicality.
Shaman - classic but I hated his stint as "Talisman".
Smart Alec - eh.
Snowbird - classic and amazing if often mishandled.
Spider Woman (Julia Carpenter) - I only know her from the old days and see no logic in her being in a Canadian team.
St. Elmo - eh.
Stitch - eh.
Talisman - great character with untapped potential.
U.S.Agent - no, not for a Canadian team.
Vindicator (Mac) - I actually 100% agreed with Byrne's decision to kill him off. He should have stayed dead.
Wild Child - only like him as a villain but annoyed by the Wolverine knockoff qualities.
Windshear - he had potential.
Yukon Jack - no, just no.

[Yankee]

Aurora - I liked her, though I absolutley hated when she toyed with Bochs. probably only one who holds this opinion but I think she was best written in vol 4
Beta Ray Bill - Honestly no barely anything about him
Centennial - Liked his attitude, but hated there was no explanation how he got his powers.
Diamond Lil - really liked this character, and thought her breast cancer story arc was really well done.
Earth Mover - Played for my favorite hockey team,the Edmonton Oilers. Bout all I can say about him.
Feedback - only a vague memory.
Flex - basically Yankee in comic form.
Ghost Girl - hated this character. Didn't think anybody was demanding moaning myrtle to appear in Alpha Flight.
Goblyn - wanted her to be so much more than she ended up being. Thought she was treated way too often as the teams wild dog
Groundhog - meh
Guardian (Heather) - Liked her during all of the Byrne arc, bits of the mantalo arc (outside of the period where she only cared about keeping Madison safe instead of the rest of the team), loved the niceza arc. Generally great leader
Madison Jeffries (AKA Box 2) - Liked his growth under mantalo immensely.
Major Mapleleaf - Loved this guy immensly and thought his wash from firefly personality shine through, not a fan of how much slapstick he did, but that was the writers fault
Manbot - irrelevant
Marrina - good character. I feel Byrne dropped the ball by never having her interact with her family ever again, particularly Dan. To be honest I would have much rather had him get in a relationship with Marrina instead of Namor. Namor pretty much declared it love at first sight, as trope in any medium that makes me nauseous. Dan had been her best friends since they were babies and Byrne even acknowledged Dan had intentse romantic feelings for her.
Michael Pointer - I actually like the concept of his character quite a lot and I feel he is as just as much a victim of the collective as alpha flight was. However, it was minddumbingly stupid to put him in alpha flight.
Murmur - auroras worst qualities turned up to eleven.
Nemesis - Only liked her in the two deadly Ernest stories. After that she was an idiot as leader of gamma flight and a further idiot in volume 3
Northstar - classic, but was not a fan when his self centeredness bordered on the cruel (ie calling Bochs a cripple and saying they had given the position of leader to heather solely out of pity)
Pathway - my major irk with her has nothing to do with her, but how the writers portrayed her. Initially I felt it interesting and way ahead of its time that they were having an autistic superhero. I Have Aspergers which is on the autistic spectrum. But then they all of a sudden they decide to either a.) forget the fact/retcon her to not be autistic or b.) have her be "cured" through the familial bond she has formed with Alpha Flight. If that's the case, that is a huge slap in the face to those with autistic families "oh they can eventually come out of their shell and talk, you just aren't loving them enough for them to do so."
Persuasion - always hated this character. Go away
Puck 1s - the original, especially as written by Byrne was great.
Puck (Zuzha Yu) - loved every aspect of this character just wish she and her father had spent more time together
Radius - north stars worst qualities turned up to eleven.
Roger Bochs (aka Box 1) - good character and good story arc
Sasquatch - liked him in every incarnation except volume 3 where he was turned into the dumbest genius in the world,&nbsp;<br>
Shaman - classic, but I didn't like how writers essentially lumped his medicine man techniques as being used by every single North American native tribe. Thought the guilt arc over his wife's death was well done
Smart Alec - traitor&nbsp;<br>
Snowbird - il be honest I was never a fan. I never hated her Perse, just didn't get the hype.
Spider Woman (Julia Carpenter) - another character I barely know
St. Elmo - great one and done character
Stitch - untapped potential
Talisman - great character, although I hated the whole blaming her dad for her moms death. Especially holding on to that grudge into her adult years.
U.S.Agent - no, not for a Canadian team.
Vindicator (Mac) - I actually 100% agreed with Byrne's decision to kill him off. He should have stayed dead. Amen
Wild Child - go away
Windshear - he had potential.
Yukon Jack - meh

[Tawmis]

Aurora - great and original character, but often mishandled.

By often, you mean almost always?

Beta Ray Bill - I liked him back in the day but not as a member of AF.

Same, though, I admit, I was happy to see BRB in a title.

Diamond Lil - so much untapped potential but I read that she was killed off.

Supposedly in Weapon X, but I believe that was retconned, because Random (of X-Factor) was with her when she supposedly "died" - and he's turned up since.

Guardian (Heather) - BEST Alphan ever.

Best? Of them all? Okay, I have to hear why!

Marrina - good character that sadly gets mishandled more often than Aurora.

Especially her fate in Avengers...

Sasquatch - classic, even if some artists are clueless in rendering his physicality.

That is such a pet peeve of mine, when artists draw him all wonky.

Shaman - classic but I hated his stint as "Talisman".

Amen.

Vindicator (Mac) - I actually 100% agreed with Byrne's decision to kill him off. He should have stayed dead.

Really? I thought that was such a bad move and left the book in an odd state.

[Tawmis]

RE: Diamond Lil

I agree. The breast cancer story arc was great.

Cancer part sucks. Story telling was great

I agree - that was such a fantastic story. (And the fact that it was Cancer - something so... human... and the fact that her diamond hard skin would prevent them from being able to do normal surgery). I thought that was a great twist.

[Le Messor]

Okay, Tawmis, you're making me figure stuff out about myself! How dare you?!

Namely, just how much my feelings about the characters are tied in to when they first appeared.
Also, I'm not going go through each... I should already be in bed.

Byrne's characters:

Aurora
Diamond Lil
Guardian (Heather)
Madison Jeffries (AKA Box 2)
Marrina
Nemesis
Northstar
Puck
Roger Bochs (aka Box 1)
Sasquatch
Shaman
Smart Alec
Snowbird
Talisman
Vindicator (Mac)
Wild Child

The originals and bests. I loved them when Byrne created them and wrote them - though none survived his loss intact.
His Nemesis is probably my all-time favourite character - just from that one issue (not counting Mantlo's version).
I loved the way he wrote Wild Child; somebody who came across as a cheap knock-off of Wolverine, but with a very erudite way of speaking; somebody who looked weird, but not comic-book weird: real world weird. (This was before somebody decided that people who read stories about guys who fly must want ultra-realism above all, and everything was 'realistic'.)

The original team... Love 'em.
I loved Snowbird's power-set, though not her origins.

Puck... who doesn't like Puck?

Non-Byrne v1:

Feedback
Goblyn
Pathway
Persuasion
Windshear

I like these guys, too, though not all the same. The Goblyn/Pathway duo appeals to me (and I named my cat Goblyn); the quietness of Pathway (who, by the way, was my introduction to autism - when I first read her, I thought it was just a personality trait).
I like Persuasion, too; a strong young woman who has the good idea to go punk to disguise her change in skin tone.

First Flight:

Groundhog
St. Elmo
Stitch

I liked the street-level world weary 'real' character of Groundhog.
St. Elmo... Sooo Brian Blessed!
Stitch I just liked as a quiet wallflower-type. (Though by then I think I knew what autistic really meant.)

v2:

Flex
Ghost Girl
Manbot
Murmur
Radius

I loathe v2 with a passion.
Manbot I don't even consider a character, just a piece of equipment.
Radius is the 'cool jerk*' type, from when that was popular. For me, characters like that are only the second half.
Flex was the only one of them I could even stand. I liked the dichotomy of that personality with those powers.
The others were just forgettable. (I can picture Murmur in my mind, at least. Can't picture Ghost Girl.)

*self-edited for language

v3:

Centennial
Major Mapleleaf
Puck (Zuzha Yu)
Nemesis
Yukon Jack

Centennial I liked as a father figure type. YJ, see 'Radius'. The others, I didn't. I didn't take to this new Nemesis who was nothing like the first - and yet we're told to believe she was the same character (not on-panel, thank God). (She's okay, but nothing like 'my' Nemesis.)
I liked Thunder better than Mapleleaf. Puck I have mixed feelings about, but overall, just bleh.

Beta Ray Bill
Michael Pointer
Spider Woman (Julia Carpenter)
U.S.Agent

Julia Carpenter has that cool, mysterious, Spider-Woman mystique - but it didn't come in to play much here.
U.S. Agent had no business being on a Canadian team, and it was a slap in the face to all us damn far'ners that he was forced there.

Don't get me started on Michael Pointer... He would share my first name!

Misc:

Earth Mover

Mostly forgettable, but could have been cool if he'd appeared more. Marvel has few legacy characters, it would've been nice to have one.

(Michael Pointer) I liked his story in that title (forgot what what it was? Marvel Tales or something?)

Marvel Comics Presents v2.

~ Le Messor

[Le Messor]

Northstar = Rudeness (due to "covering up" his Sexuality)

I've always thought he was just rude.

Nemesis was your favorite character? Really? Out of everyone? I have to hear why.

I loved her mystique, the sense of vampirism and Joan-of-Arcness, that sword! Where does she get those delicious toys?, the costume worked for me, the drive, the fantasy-style speech patterns...

This is one of the reasons, despite disliking Volume 3 of the New Warriors, I actually _really_ liked the character Microbe.

Reality TV volume, right?
I thought it was okay, but not great.

(Snowbird)
What is it you don't like about her origins?

There's a... clash... with my personal beliefs.

St. Elmo... Sooo Brian Blessed!

I am missing the reference I think?

St Elmo reminds me a lot of Brian Blessed. If you don't know who that is... think of somebody like Blackadder the First's father, or Voltan of the Hawkmen in the '80 Flash Gordon.

The trash compactor in Star Wars was better than Manbot...

The Dianoga, certainly!

~ Le Messor
"Happiness grows at our own firesides, and is not to be picked in strangers' gardens."
~ Douglas Jerrold

[Tawmis]

I've always thought he was just rude.

See, that's what I thought when I first read Alpha Flight... I was much more niave back then and missed EVERY clue that Byrne dropped about Northstar's sexuality - once I was older - I just assumed he was rude, because he was bitter and angry about hiding his sexuality from all the world (being a championship skier and all)... Maybe being rude is just there - but it seems like, when dealing with his boyfriend (in recent years of Uncanny X-Men, he didn't seem as rude)...

I loved her mystique, the sense of vampirism and Joan-of-Arcness, that sword! Where does she get those delicious toys?, the costume worked for me, the drive, the fantasy-style speech patterns...

Interesting! I love that everyone has their favorites! For example, Maico and I (who I do the Comic Relief Podcast with), did an "eval" of everyone who has ever been an X-Men for our upcoming "Age of Apocalypse" (movie) Podcast - and we were both VERY much against Maggot - and yet, just recently on the New Warriors twitter I run - someone mentioned that they LOVE Maggot.

RE: Snowbird Origin
There's a... clash... with my personal beliefs.

Mind if I ask? Because now I am utterly curious. You're throwing bread crumbs and I am hungry for toast!

St Elmo reminds me a lot of Brian Blessed. If you don't know who that is... think of somebody like Blackadder the First's father, or Voltan of the Hawkmen in the '80 Flash Gordon.

Yeah, I don't know Brian Blessed. (I hate being an uneducated American!)

[Le Messor]

You're throwing bread crumbs and I am hungry for toast!

I'm trying to answer the question of this thread without starting a flame war.
I'll lay it out as simply as I can, and pray said war won't start:
I believe in one God and one only, and she being a goddess goes against that.

Yeah, I don't know Brian Blessed. (I hate being an uneducated American!)

Well, again, Flash Gordon - American movie. (Isn't it? The producer's Italian, the band who did the music are English... hmmm...) (When I said 'think of people like', they were both people he's played. ) TV Tropes does, or did, have a trope called 'The Toblerone' which was literally based on Brian Blessed.
Don't know how it got that name.

~ Le Messor
"Have more than thou showest; Speak less than thou knowest."
~ Shakespeare

[Bill P]

Yankee's "Take A Point/Add A Point" thread made me think - it's interesting who we minus points and add points to...

So I thought it'd be kind of fun to list the people from his list - and people can reply to any or all of the character - and write down what they like or dislike or both - about the following characters? I figure there's potential for quite a bit of discussion!

Aurora - Core Alphan . I like her more as wild and carefree Aurora, as opposed to the split personality Aurora. I think the crazy Aurora was over done - liked in in the Weapons X series.

Beta Ray Bill - na
Centennial - okay at best. I hated volume 3 so much, so I'm biased
Diamond Lil - Core Omega Flight. Loved her as a villain, which they should have kept her as.
Earth Mover - I think there are enough 1st nation mystics. Bit of a stereo type. Cannon Fodder
Feedback - One dimensional, but then the character was never really fleshed out. Maybe keep him around as a member of Gamma Flight.
Flex - One of my favourite new Alphans from volume 2.
Ghost Girl - too generic of a character to really care about.
Goblin - Core Beta Flight - Originally i couldn't stand Goblyn. During the Dream Queen story line I grew to appreciate her.
Groundhog - My favourite of the First Flight line up. I'd make him part of Department H
Guardian (Heather) - Keep her part of Alpha Flight, but more in an administrator role. Also have her in the original flag outfit, but with the maple leaf part opposite to Guardians

Madison Jeffries (AKA Box 2) - like Jeffries as more of a supporting character. Loved loved loved how John Byrne used him.
Major Mapleleaf - die, die
Manbot - don't hate me. My favourite form Volume 2. Gamma Flight
Martina - core Alphan. I prefer original Marrina to the new angst one. Though I can understand the character development component
Michael Pointer die die die die die
Murmur - did not like her. Too similar to Aurora/Persausion
Nemesis - Like her as a villain. I think villains should be as interesting as the heroes.
Northstar - Core Alphan. I like him more when writers don't go over the top with his attitude.
Pathway - Core Beta Flight. Neutral about her.
Persuasion - Core Beta Flight. Like her but only in small doses
Puck 1s - Core Alphan. Who doesn't like Puck.
Puck (Zuzha Yu) - Ugh. Volume 3 again. Not against the idea of Puck 2, or even being the daughter of Puck. But her working in a bar etc was just redux Puck. Boring and unoriginal.

Radius - annoying. To angst. Bugs me when writers go to angst on characters.
Roger Bochs (aka Box 1) - RIP. One of the best supporting cast members during the Byrne era.
Sasquatch - Core Alphan. When I think of Alpha Flight. I think Sasquatch. Before issue 1 volume 1 he was every where - Marvel Team Up, Two in one
Shaman - Core Alphan. Would like to see hime used more solidly in other books. Crystal last issue type stuff

Smart Alec - Core Omega Flight. Leader of Omega Flight.
Snowbird - Core Alphan. She was my least favourite of the original Alpha. I thought it was between her and one of the twins to be the that dies in issue 12 One Shall Surely Die

Spider Woman (Julia Carpenter) na
St. Elmo - Would like to see St. Elmo return in a future Alpha story.
Stitch - Interesting character. Would be a good story arc. i'd keep her around in Dept H
Talisman - Leader Omega Flight
U.S.Agent - na
Vindicator (Mac) - Leader Alpha Flight.
Wild Child - Core Omega Flight. Why did the writers turn most of the good Alpha villains into heroes?
Windshear - okay guy. Guest appearances
Yukon Jack - die, die,

My two cents

[Tawmis]

Aurora - Core Alphan . I like her more as wild and carefree Aurora, as opposed to the split personality Aurora. I think the crazy Aurora was over done - liked in in the Weapons X series.

Yes, that was the downside. While I appreciated the idea of Split Personality - after awhile, other writers, that's ALL they focused on. Was the fact that she was "crazy" rather than trying to use the two personalities she had been developed with.

Diamond Lil - Core Omega Flight. Loved her as a villain, which they should have kept her as.

I think what happens is sometimes writers get a good idea for a character, and they bring them over to the hero side to tell it. Because, I don't think her breast cancer story would have ever gotten told, otherwise. And I thought that was a great moment of development for her.

Groundhog - My favourite of the First Flight line up. I'd make him part of Department H

Okay, you gotta tell me what stuck out about Groundhog.

Puck (Zuzha Yu) - Ugh. Volume 3 again. Not against the idea of Puck 2, or even being the daughter of Puck. But her working in a bar etc was just redux Puck. Boring and unoriginal.

Aw man, I liked it! It'd make sense that someone - as well traveled - as Puck was, may have had an offspring he wasn't aware of.

Snowbird - Core Alphan. She was my least favourite of the original Alpha. I thought it was between her and one of the twins to be the that dies in issue 12 One Shall Surely Die

We couldn't disagree more, lol.

St. Elmo - Would like to see St. Elmo return in a future Alpha story.

Didn't he die? (Not that it means anything in comics...)

[Bill P]

Didn't he die? (Not that it means anything in comics...)

Exactly