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Thread: Original Alpha Flight

  1. #16
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    Okay, that's less confusing.

  2. #17

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    These are awesome, Gary! Can't wait to see the rest of your work. Do you happen to have a Deviant page?

  3. #18
    The Eclectic Opinionator Alpha Flight
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    Default I still believe in ALPHA FLIGHT's untapped potential

    Quote Originally Posted by hydro View Post
    These are awesome, Gary! Can't wait to see the rest of your work. Do you happen to have a Deviant page?
    Sorry, Hydro, no Deviant page. Just thumbnail sketches on typing paper. The Insider's Guide to Creating Comics suggests laying out things in thumbnail, which I'm trying to do.

    Since MARVEL has pretty much demolished the original concept of ALPHA FLIGHT and published the assassination of the original characters' character (in volume 4), it's just a nostalgic trip down memory lane.
    Last edited by Garry/Al-Fan; 03-31-2016 at 02:41 PM. Reason: Who's Canadian's premier super-team, now?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Sorry, Hydro, no Deviant page. Just thumbnail sketches on typing paper. The Insider's Guide to Creating Comics suggests laying out things in thumbnail, which I'm trying to do.
    Do they? I've recently started drawing my own comic*, and I'm doing my own weird style of layouts (sometimes thumbnails, sometimes sketching a bunch of panels I'll need, then figuring out how they'll go together on a page), but I've figured out that one advantage I have over a professional is, I have time to draft. It makes sense, but I wouldn't have thought it'd give a pro much time. (I'm not doing it 9-5 like a pro would, but it can still take weeks to do a single page.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Since MARVEL has pretty much demolished the original concept of ALPHA FLIGHT and published the assassination of the original characters' character (in volume 4), it's just a nostalgic trip down memory lane.
    Do you refer here to the Fear Itself volume? (That's the only one that fits the description, but I think of it as v5 - I imagine you're not counting Omega?)

    * I got tired of doing random doodles during meetings at work, and started doing a comic instead. True story.

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  5. #20
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    Default Heathernator and the bank-robbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    Do they? I've recently started drawing my own comic*, and I'm doing my own weird style of layouts (sometimes thumbnails, sometimes sketching a bunch of panels I'll need, then figuring out how they'll go together on a page), [do you have any drawings you want to post? G/A-F] but I've figured out that one advantage I have over a professional is, I have time to draft. It makes sense, but I wouldn't have thought it'd give a pro much time. (I'm not doing it 9-5 like a pro would, but it can still take weeks to do a single page.)

    How much time and how many pages John Calimee had to produce (monthly and/or bi-weekly) is something I have been hoping someone would consider when taking his run into consideration. Getting the books out on time seemed to be the biggest concern, at that time. The consequences of not making a deadline were/are...? G/A-F

    Do you refer here to the Fear Itself volume? (That's the only one that fits the description, but I think of it as v5 - I imagine you're not counting Omega?) No, I'm referring to premeditated murder with Dept. H goons in on it, destruction of public and private property, assault on police officer(s), and sedition....all of which happened in volume 4.


    * I got tired of doing random doodles during meetings at work, and started doing a comic instead. True story.

    ~ Le Messor
    "Forget it. No Civil War picture ever made a nickel."
    ~ MGM executive, advising against investing in Gone With The Wind


    I don't think that saying "The Master made me do it" is going to hold much water where "Heather's" cousins are concerned. G/A-F
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    I've recently started drawing my own comic
    [do you have any drawings you want to post? G/A-F]
    I've considered it. The only copies I have electronic at the moment are pdfs, though. I was about to say that's not suitable for (direct) posting here, but I don't actually know.
    Also, I consider it to be in draft mode: I've been taking the versions I've done at work (which is up to page 14) and taking it home and redrawing it on graph paper at comic artboard size (I've got about 9 of those done), but it turns out graph paper shows up in scans far too well. I haven't inked yet. (I'll probably trace the inks onto plain paper.)

    (Warning, and I know this didn't enter into your question: It isn't Alpha-related.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    How much time and how many pages John Calimee had to produce (monthly and/or bi-weekly) is something I have been hoping someone would consider when taking his run into consideration.
    Yeah, but... (almost) all comic artists have that same restriction. Maybe that's part of why he's said he wasn't ready?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garry/Al-Fan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    Do you refer here to the Fear Itself volume? (That's the only one that fits the description, but I think of it as v5 - I imagine you're not counting Omega?)
    No, I'm referring to premeditated murder with Dept. H goons in on it, destruction of public and private property, assault on police officer(s), and sedition....all of which happened in volume 4.
    I still think you're referring to the Fear Itself volume - when I say that, I only mean the one that sprang out of Fear Itself, the latest one, which you're describing. That's the volume where Heather shot her cousin.
    I'm sure it is volume 4, but I think of it as 5. Because my mind happens that way.

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  7. #22
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    Yeah, Fear Itself is Volume 4, though I can understand you classing it as 5 if you include Omega Flight. (Which I actually reckon would have changed it's name to become Alpha Flight eventually, had it 'stayed' an ongoing.)

  8. #23
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    I'm assuming that Garry is referring to the fear itself as volume 4, he is just refusing to address it as fear itself because he hates that arc so much he doesn't think it deserves to be known by its proper name. And as far as character assassinations go, the only two I think come anywhere near that charge are Vindicator and Sasquatch. barring the ending where he lets his brainwashed wife flee with his only child, Mac was as Mac as he'd always been. puck was Puck, Northstar and Aurora were on point, Marrina was tweaked a bit to be more punk rocker in attitude, but I didnt mind that. Now Vindicators I agree was particularly off. The implication throughout, seemed to be that Heather willingly turned her self over to the Master because she wanted Claire back so much, and that the brainwashing element of unity just turned her anger up to eleven. That means according to the writers Heather was willingly able to send Canada to its doom solely so she could save Claire.....from a stable and loving home. I don't care how much Heather was distraught over not getting Claire back, she would never have listened to the Master, ever.Now if they had Unbrainwashed her and had her have a Michael pointer moment where she relives the moment of killing her cousins and is in utter horror from what she did, I could see the damage done to her character lessened somewhat. But nope, we get a fake feel good moment with no mention of her cousins ever again. The only problem I had with Sasquatch was that out of nowhere near the end they gave him a duality crisis like the hulk. Now in the original Byrne run there was that battle for control between him and Tarnaq, but he never went hulk smash let alone actually say the phrase quatch smash.
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    I'm assuming that Garry is referring to the fear itself as volume 4, he is just refusing to address it as fear itself because he hates that arc so much he doesn't think it deserves to be known by its proper name.
    I think what we've got here is failure to communicate!
    But it's cleared up now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    And as far as character assassinations go, the only two I think come anywhere near that charge are Vindicator and Sasquatch.
    Tha's cool, but for me I'd also say Marinna (turned from a sweet innocent girl into an angry nasty punk rocker) and Shaman (turned into an angry minority). Oh, and the comic Alpha Flight (as opposed to the team itself); turned wayyyy angry.

    I dunno about Garry, but that tone of anger was the biggest problem I had with v4. (Yep, adopting the proper name now. For as long as I remember...)

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  10. #25
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    Il be completely honest...... I disagree completely about the anger. Outside of heather I didn't think anyone was unusually angry from the alpha flight cast. And also Their country just turned into a dystopia overnight, and had a longtime friend in heather betray them. I'd be angry too. Two things about marinna: 1. People can be punk rockers without being angry, I saw her more as sarcastic than angry. And 2. That homegirl charm is still present as seen when Kyle and Northstar embrace and she goes awwwww.
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

  11. #26
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    I started thinking about how ironic (or just plain hypocritical!) it'd be if I started an angry fight* about this!

    You make a subtle distinction about Marinna; since I haven't read the comics since they first came out, I really can't address it.

    * I was never thinking about starting said fight.

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  12. #27
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    Issue one of fear itself was the first alpha flight issue I ever read, although ironically it was the last alpha flight arc I completed. The reason I guess why Marrina was so jarring is that, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the last time prior to issue 1 of fear itself where she was present was way back when Alpha flight invaded Atlantis? Cuz I can see going from that to die earth scum being offsetting to people. Personally,as a punk rocker myself, I liked it, but then again I also liked her before that change. Now in terms of character advancement I thought volume 4 did the best ever interpretation of Aurora and Northstar out of the entire history of Alpha Flight ( I probably just violated the Ten Commandments of John Byrne with that statement )
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

  13. #28
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    Technically, Marinna appeared in an issue of New Avengers, but that was in the background in a bakti tank. Also in several issues of Avengers right after the Atlantis invasion you speak of.
    People have given a lot of reasons for the change; me, I don't care. I care that I liked her a lot more before it than after; and that, as a reader, it came from nowhere. We'd seen her being the sweet, innocent version, then she was the punk. Iirc, the characters didn't even acknowledge there was a change.
    (Note: I'm not saying I disliked her after; just that she wasn't the same character, and for me that was not an improvement.)

  14. #29
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    And that's fair to each their own. I've seen both versions and liked the second one better, just because we came out with different conclusions doesn't make either of us wrong. And as far as writers go, I only feel one writer 100 percent missed the boat on what Alpha Flight should be about and that's Lobdell. He turned the characters into walking jokes. We can Debate whether obeck and van lente made the series too "angry" but at least they didn't turn our beloved band into parodies and caricatures.
    "like Warren Moon before he defected, a perfect spiral!" - Eugene Judd

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Messor View Post
    I've considered it. The only copies I have electronic at the moment are pdfs, though. I was about to say that's not suitable for (direct) posting here, but I don't actually know.
    Also, I consider it to be in draft mode: I've been taking the versions I've done at work (which is up to page 14) and taking it home and redrawing it on graph paper at comic artboard size (I've got about 9 of those done), but it turns out graph paper shows up in scans far too well. I haven't inked yet. (I'll probably trace the inks onto plain paper.)

    I'd like to see it, when you've got it where you want it. Heck, I've posted stuff and it's not quite ready for comic artboard, yet. G/A-F

    ...



    Yeah, but... (almost) all comic artists have that same restriction. Maybe that's part of why he's said he wasn't ready?

    True, and it kind of explains why so rarely there are gems of sequential storytelling when just getting the book out is the number one priority. Just a little more time probably would have made all the difference in the world...which is why I have always thought that 7 times a year is a good schedule to get a book off to the best start possible.


    I still think you're referring to the Fear Itself volume - when I say that, I only mean the one that sprang out of Fear Itself, the latest one, which you're describing. That's the volume where Heather shot her cousin.
    I'm sure it is volume 4, but I think of it as 5. Because my mind happens that way.

    ~ Le Messor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee View Post
    I'm assuming that Garry is referring to the fear itself as volume 4, he is just refusing to address it as fear itself because he hates that arc so much he doesn't think it deserves to be known by its proper name. [I don't hate the arc; it makes no more sense than most anything else that's happened during ALPHA FLIGHT's long and tortured existence.] And as far as character assassinations go, the only two I think come anywhere near that charge are Vindicator and Sasquatch. barring the ending where he lets his brainwashed wife flee with his only child, Mac was as Mac as he'd always been. puck was Puck, Northstar and Aurora were on point, Marrina was tweaked a bit to be more punk rocker in attitude, but I didnt mind that. Now Vindicators I agree was particularly off. The implication throughout, seemed to be that Heather willingly turned her self over to the Master because she wanted Claire back so much, and that the brainwashing element of unity just turned her anger up to eleven. That means according to the writers Heather was willingly able to send Canada to its doom solely so she could save Claire.....from a stable and loving home. I don't care how much Heather was distraught over not getting Claire back, she would never have listened to the Master, ever.Now if they had Unbrainwashed her and had her have a Michael pointer moment where she relives the moment of killing her cousins and is in utter horror from what she did, I could see the damage done to her character lessened somewhat. But nope, we get a fake feel good moment with no mention of her cousins ever again. The only problem I had with Sasquatch was that out of nowhere near the end they gave him a duality crisis like the hulk. Now in the original Byrne run there was that battle for control between him and Tarnaq, but he never went hulk smash let alone actually say the phrase quatch smash.
    I can respect that. What volume 4 vividly portrayed is Vindicator (with Dept. H goons in tow, surrounding the house) bursting into the cousins' home, with the express intention of getting Claire back...and already had a report made up to indicate the cousins had weapons, which Mr. Eaglesham clearly illustrated they did not have. Moreover, when Vindicator gets back to HQ, she lets a Wendigo poke her daughter...this is not an example of good mothering, IMHO.

    What vol. 4 also vividly portrays is Mac/Guardian leading Judd, Aurora, and Snowbird on a bank-robbery. Bank surveillance picks up the events; Cody broadcasts the events...it clearly says so later in the story. Judd, Aurora, and Snowbird are direct accomplices to a felony (I'm assuming grand theft larceny is a felony in Canada), and there is no illustration or exposition that exonerates either Vindicator or Mac/Guardian from what they did.

    Because, if Cody was legally elected to be PM in AF's fictional world, than leading an armed revolt against Cody's UNITY regime---regardless of how overreaching and abusive it was---still constitutes sedition...which the whole team was instrumental in. Cody, presumably, died when the spacecraft leveled Parliament Hill, so who's left that knows/saw The Master outside of Mac, Heather, baby Claire and the member of STRIKE TEAM ALPHA who just disappeared by the end of # 8?

    Lastly, in the footage of AF breaking out of the UNITY stronghold, it shows a brown Sasquatch...at the time when Walter couldn't transform into Sasquatch. Sure, Snowbird transforms into a Sasquatchy beast, but she goes albino/white when she transforms.

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